Tuesday, August 10, 2010

*BEST OF DTB #14* Four tough questions for protestants

In a Youtube debate, I have posed 4 tough questions, for protestants that they refuse to attempt to answer. This is because all 4 questions strike at the very heart of what protestants view as God's plan of salvation.

I am going to answer the questions one at a time there and record the discourse here as well as any lucid questions/ comments that may appear.

The four questions are;
1) When Paul preached to the Romans, did he do so with God's authority?

2) What did Paul mean when he said that he had to fill up what was lacking in the sufferings of Christ? (Col 1:24)

3) Why was it necessary for Jesus to suffer?

4) Why did Jesus say that the cost of discipleship is that you must carry your cross?

The first question, academically, is by-far the easiest, yet none of the 4 protestants in the room were willing to answer it (and still aren't). The answer, obviously, is yes. Paul clearly spoke on God's behalf. In other words, the WORD of God was transmitted through the PERSON of Paul and not just Paul's letters. Paul PREACHED just as infallibly as when he wrote.

This proves two Catholic precepts
1) That "God's Word" is not confined to Scripture ALONE, thus refuting Sola Scriptura.
2) God CAN transmit His infallible law through fallible human beings.

Any protestant not willing to concede these two points is simply dishonest.

Further, Paul passed on his divinely established office to Timothy by the laying on of hands.

2TM 1:6 For this reason, I remind you to stir into flame the gift of God that you have through the imposition of my hands.

The Bible is very clear that this anointing is passed on by direct succession. There is no precept for someone receiving the authority by their own efforts.

I have just proven the Catholic doctrines of Scriptural authority, infallibility and Apostolic succession. All of this, with ONE question.

Question #2 overturns one of the most dishonest arguments protestants use, in the same way that Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers. The argument of "sufficiency". Protestants will claim that for a Catholic to suggest that a person must participate in his own salvation suggests that something is "lacking" in the sufferings of Christ. They will contend that such an assertion is Blasphemy.

It is pretty hard to square that assertion of blasphemy with scripture.

Collosians 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church,

I have never once met a protestant who could provide an answer for this passage. So I will.......

To look at this passage of scripture, as a protestant, is to be shocked. After all, what could POSSIBLY be LACKING in the sufferings of Christ? Were I to say this, you would accuse me of blasphemy..... but this is the Apostle Paul speaking here.

This passage lays bare the dishonesty of the "sufficiency" argument because there are, in fact, TWO types of sufficiency, not ONE, as the "reformers" dishonestly proposed.

The first is "Material" Sufficiency. That is, is there sufficient material to accomplish the job? In this case, the question would be, did Christ's ''finished'' work secure the graces needed for the salvation of every man, woman and child on earth? The answer, of course, is yes.

The question is not in material sufficiency. The question is in "practical" sufficiency. Practical, as in ''practice''.
Does a Doctor have the material knowledge to do his craft? of course! but that doesn't mean he doesn't have to exercise his medical "practice" correctly. To do so is "malpractice"

When Christ foretold His suffering and death, He instituted a "Covenant" in His blood. (Matthew 26:28). A covenant is a binding agreement. It binds BOTH sides to the terms of the covenant.

What is LACKING in the sufferings of Christ? YOUR side of the Covenant.

Even if you were to argue that all you must do is "confess with your mouth, and believe in your heart", you would STILL be refuting practical sufficiency because you are acknowledging that YOU have to do something. How ever, in Col 1:24, Paul expressly proposes SUFFERING as his part.

Thus, I have proven that suffering is a necessary part of salvation and proven Opes Dei as built on a Biblical precept.

Question #3 is another one that most protestants (and even many Catholics) have never even seriously thought about.

When asked why did Jesus suffer, most protestants will quote Isaiah 53
53:5 But he was pierced for our offenses,
crushed for our sins,
Upon him was the chastisement that makes us whole,
by his stripes we were healed

and they are right....partially.

What they do not speak to is HOW. HOW did Jesus sufferings heal us?

Protestants claim that Jesus suffering was WHOLLY SUBSTITUTIONAL. That is, Jesus suffered so that we don't have to.

How is that working out for you?

If Jesus suffered and died to take the place of your suffering and death, that would logically dictate that you don't have to suffer and die, wouldn't it?

Because Jesus was baptized, does that mean you don't have to be baptized?

In the same way, to suggest that Jesus carrying His cross, gets you out of carrying yours puts the scriptures to a lie.

Matthew 10:38 and whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.
The answer to question #3 is this. Jesus suffered to make the act of suffering salvific. He suffered so that you don't suffer in vain. Through His stripes you were healed means that through uniting your suffering to His, you can be saved.

Question #4 deals with exactly what Jesus meant by carrying our crosses. Did he mean withstanding the blistering and hate filled attacks of some protestants and others? Yes. He warned about such hate, even telling us that they would call His Holy church an instrument of the Devil.

Matthew 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, for the slave that he become like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, * how much more those of his household!

but it is so much more than that. It is exactly what Paul speaks about in Collosians 1:24.

It is how we fill up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ.
..for the sake of His body, the Church

What Paul is talking about here is the communion of Saints. This flies in the face of the protestant notion of everyone having his own personal Jesus.

Salvation is a communal experience. When God asked Cain "Where is your brother?", Cain responded "Am I my brother's keeper?".
The answer was yes but Cain figured that out too late and, sadly, became the first human resident of hell.

As my dear brother, Defender said.... there is no such thing as a victimless sin because Christ was the victim of all sin. And we, His body suffer with Him and He with us. We are united through His body. Where was He on Sept 11th? He was in the midst of it, through His suffering on the Cross.

Jesus was very clear. Those who choose Him will suffer. They will feel the abandonment He felt on the cross when He cried out "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

They will feel protestants and others spit on them, mock them and curse them and commit all manner of false witness against them, just as they did to Him.

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me.

Lastly, they will suffer the catastrophies the world will bring upon them (man made and natural) and unless they are grounded in the Catholic rock, these storms may destroy them. (Matthew 7:24-27)

Anyone who has not suffered has not known Christ because Christ cannot calm the waves if there are no waves to calm. It is those that wish to avoid suffering that will find it.

Luke 16:19 * "There was a rich man* who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day.
16:20 And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores,
16:21 who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man's table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores.
16:22 When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried,
16:23 and from the netherworld, * where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
16:24 And he cried out, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.'
16:25 Abraham replied, 'My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented.

"Faith alone" stands refuted


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